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cobb
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Registered: ‎12-29-2010

Video processing with FPGAs

 

Hi all:

 

I have some years of experience in FPGA designs targetted for control applications , and now I am interested in getting hands on FPGA video processing.

 

The point is that I do not have the necessary theoretical basics to do that , and I write here to look for some useful bibliography. Is there any book explaining video processing techniques and offering some good example with FPGAs? Any recommendation?

 

Cobb.

FAQ to gurus:

If you don't know what the heck I'm talking about, go for a coffe and bother someone else.Thanks.
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eteam00
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Registered: ‎07-21-2009

Your first move is to learn a bit about video.  You should learn the broad, general, fundamental principles of video first, then more detailed level aspects of the type of video in which you are interested.

 

Then try to distill to short summary what you would like to design in the field of video.

 

Then try to decide how best to accomplish your design.  An FPGA may not be your best choice.  There are a number of very good non-linear video editors which use standard PC hardware, and are devoid of custom designed hardware such as FPGAs.

 

When you figure out what you want to do, then it's time to discuss how (or if) FPGAs would fit in your plans.

 

It sounds like immersing yourself in FPGA design may be premature, unless your primary interest is learning FPGA design and your interest in video is a secondary concern.

 

- Bob Elkind

SIGNATURE:
README for newbies is here: http://forums.xilinx.com/t5/New-Users-Forum/README-first-Help-for-new-users/td-p/219369

Summary:
1. Read the manual or user guide. Have you read the manual? Can you find the manual?
2. Search the forums (and search the web) for similar topics.
3. Do not post the same question on multiple forums.
4. Do not post a new topic or question on someone else's thread, start a new thread!
5. Students: Copying code is not the same as learning to design.
6 "It does not work" is not a question which can be answered. Provide useful details (with webpage, datasheet links, please).
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8. I am not paid for forum posts. If I write a good post, then I have been good for nothing.
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cobb
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Registered: ‎12-29-2010

Thanks,

 

Let me point out that I'm not premature in FPGA designs. I'm premature in video processing, but I've been around in the world of FPGA design for about 5 years, developing complex autotuning PID algorythms in Virtex-4 devices for laser frequency stabilization standards.

 

Also have designed and developed satellite  Power Control and Distribution  systems, from the specification , through the system/unitary verification( getting 100 % Modelsim code coverage, using PSL for self verification of unitary blocks,....). And it also turns out that I have verified 2 audio Virtex-4 processing systems and one Virtex-5 video processing system (gammna correction, edge enhacement, fast DDR2 interfacing,...), leading  verification teams for those tasks.

 

So , getting to the important point , I'm an average qualified FPGA designer with no design experience in Video Processing systems. I'm interested in digital TV applications, because it looks like to have a broad and fast growing market there, and the FPGA SoC based solutions look like to be very used there. So, as you can see , I am not looking for a VHDL introductory course.

 

Do you have explicit information on what I'm interested, or I'm wasting time here?

 

Cobb

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

FAQ to gurus:

If you don't know what the heck I'm talking about, go for a coffe and bother someone else.Thanks.
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eteam00
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Registered: ‎07-21-2009

Sorry to repeat myself, maybe you missed this the first time around.

Your first move is to learn a bit about video.  You should learn the broad, general, fundamental principles of video first, then more detailed level aspects of the type of video in which you are interested.

 

Then try to distill to short summary what you would like to design in the field of video.

If you want to limit the field of interest to "digital video", this recent thread may be interesting to you.

 

- Bob Elkind

SIGNATURE:
README for newbies is here: http://forums.xilinx.com/t5/New-Users-Forum/README-first-Help-for-new-users/td-p/219369

Summary:
1. Read the manual or user guide. Have you read the manual? Can you find the manual?
2. Search the forums (and search the web) for similar topics.
3. Do not post the same question on multiple forums.
4. Do not post a new topic or question on someone else's thread, start a new thread!
5. Students: Copying code is not the same as learning to design.
6 "It does not work" is not a question which can be answered. Provide useful details (with webpage, datasheet links, please).
7. You are not charged extra fees for comments in your code.
8. I am not paid for forum posts. If I write a good post, then I have been good for nothing.
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cobb
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Registered: ‎12-29-2010

eteann00,

 

Don't feel sorry to repeat yourself, your first reply was unuseful and even wrong in the terms. But I will gave Kudos to the author of the thread you reference me.

 

Bye,

 

Cobb

FAQ to gurus:

If you don't know what the heck I'm talking about, go for a coffe and bother someone else.Thanks.
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eteam00
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Registered: ‎07-21-2009

Cobb,

 

Perhaps I can still be useful if you describe what aspects of "digital TV applications" are of interest to you.  This is an extremely broad subject.  The referenced thread lists two excellent reference books on the broad field of "digital video".

 

If I asked you for help on the subject of "automobiles", would you not ask if I'm interested in

  • designing automobiles
  • repairing automobiles
  • selling automobiles
  • testing automobiles
  • adding accessories to automobiles
  • driving automobiles

Does this help clarify what information from you would be useful for anyone who wants to help you?

 

- Bob Elkind

SIGNATURE:
README for newbies is here: http://forums.xilinx.com/t5/New-Users-Forum/README-first-Help-for-new-users/td-p/219369

Summary:
1. Read the manual or user guide. Have you read the manual? Can you find the manual?
2. Search the forums (and search the web) for similar topics.
3. Do not post the same question on multiple forums.
4. Do not post a new topic or question on someone else's thread, start a new thread!
5. Students: Copying code is not the same as learning to design.
6 "It does not work" is not a question which can be answered. Provide useful details (with webpage, datasheet links, please).
7. You are not charged extra fees for comments in your code.
8. I am not paid for forum posts. If I write a good post, then I have been good for nothing.
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cobb
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Registered: ‎12-29-2010

 

Look, at this point of my life I've dealt with specs for FPGA designs of more 200 pages long, verification plans, ...etc. So, when it's necessary, I'm very worried about details.

 

I guess this is a general technical discussion forum, and there should be room for generic questions. I mentioned FPGA digital video processing. I know there are books with this tittle or very similar, and I've reviewed many of their table of contents.

 

Not much imagination is necessary to guess from my first question that I was looking for reviews of some of those books. Again, do you have hands on experience with this topics/references or I'm simply wasting time with you?

 

 

P.D: Save your rethorical and 10-year old illustrative examples for anyone else needing it.

 

Cobb

 

 

FAQ to gurus:

If you don't know what the heck I'm talking about, go for a coffe and bother someone else.Thanks.
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eteam00
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Registered: ‎07-21-2009

Look, at this point of my life I've dealt with specs for FPGA designs of more 200 pages long, verification plans, ...etc. So, when it's necessary, I'm very worried about details.

Since you brought it up, what "point of my [your] life" are we talking about?

I guess this is a general technical discussion forum, and there should be room for generic questions.

Agreed.

I mentioned FPGA digital video processing. I know there are books with this title or very similar, and I've reviewed many of their table of contents.

This is a broad subject, and there are many titles which fit your description.

Not much imagination is necessary to guess from my first question that I was looking for reviews of some of those books.

At this point of your life, you know better than most that requiring imagination is a poor substitute for clear and concise communication.  Having said that, I recommended two titles of particular value, while using the bare remnants of imagination still left within my soul.

Again, do you have hands on experience with this topics/references

Yes.

or I'm simply wasting time with you?

I'll let you be the judge.  I don't think you'll go wrong with Video Demystified.

P.D: Save your rhetorical and 10-year old illustrative examples for anyone else needing it.

Feel free to ignore my comments and suggestions.

FAQ to gurus:  If you don't know what the heck I'm talking about, go for a coffee and bother someone else.Thanks.

See, you can communicate clearly!

 

- Bob Elkind

SIGNATURE:
README for newbies is here: http://forums.xilinx.com/t5/New-Users-Forum/README-first-Help-for-new-users/td-p/219369

Summary:
1. Read the manual or user guide. Have you read the manual? Can you find the manual?
2. Search the forums (and search the web) for similar topics.
3. Do not post the same question on multiple forums.
4. Do not post a new topic or question on someone else's thread, start a new thread!
5. Students: Copying code is not the same as learning to design.
6 "It does not work" is not a question which can be answered. Provide useful details (with webpage, datasheet links, please).
7. You are not charged extra fees for comments in your code.
8. I am not paid for forum posts. If I write a good post, then I have been good for nothing.
cobb
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Registered: ‎12-29-2010

Of course I can communicate clearly. There are some satellites flying around with my FPGA designs and with specs written by myself. All this involved in design & verification teams of more than 20 guys. 

 

You say you have hands on experience with this references. And you provide me 'Video Demystified' as a reference. Ok, this book (or the other one, I don't remember) has an entire chapter explaining what light is. I'm physicist, with Laser technologies as speciality. So I don't need this kind of knowledge. The book you suggest may be good as a complement: I'm a design engineer looking for practical stuff.

 

Again: Do you know something on FPGA video processing books ?Please , don't worry if they're more focused in video compression standards, COMB filters, ...just list some of them and comment its main advantages/inconvenients. From a reader viewpoint, please. And only if you know the stuff.

 

Next reply similar to previious ones and you'll gain a capuccino.

 

 

 

FAQ to gurus:

If you don't know what the heck I'm talking about, go for a coffe and bother someone else.Thanks.
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drjohnsmith
Teacher
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Registered: ‎07-09-2009

Hi

 

Ah yes, well.

 

lots of books on video processing, and as usual, when you start, they are all too confusing, to many specialist ones.

 

part of the reason I'm stalling, is that video processing covers everything from HD pro video, with serdes, to Webcams.

 

the other reason, is that a lot of time now, DSP's are used not FPGA's.

 

Do you have video basics under your belt ?

<== If this was helpful, please feel free to give Kudos, and close if it answers your question ==>
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eteam00
Instructor
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Registered: ‎07-21-2009

Ok, this book (or the other one, I don't remember) has an entire chapter explaining what light is. I'm physicist, with Laser technologies as speciality. So I don't need this kind of knowledge. The book you suggest may be good as a complement: I'm a design engineer looking for practical stuff.

Even a 'practical' design engineer occasionally needs to refer back to basic principles.  My eyes glaze over from academic papers as much as the next guy, but neither author falls into the category of academia-babbler.

 

Furthermore, if you are interested in video display (gamma, display technologies, hardcopy) or image processing (gamut, colour space), it is very much worth your while to read these subjects with a common understanding of "light" as it applies to these subjects.  Your background with lasers no more qualifies you for video image processing than my background with image processing qualifies me to design pulsed laser power supplies.

 

Beyond the subjects of "light", basic principles of sampling and reconstruction systems are also critical to proper design of imaging systems.

 

Finally, books which overlap in content are better than a selection of books which leave gaps, right?

Again: Do you know something on FPGA video processing books ?Please , don't worry if they're more focused in video compression standards, COMB filters, ...just list some of them and comment its main advantages/inconvenients. From a reader viewpoint, please. And only if you know the stuff.

My knowledge of video processing in FPGA is derived from experience with imaging systems and sampling systems, so my familiarity with books on FPGA video processing, specifically, is nil.

 

To aid those who might be in a better position to help you, providing keywords for them would be to your benefit.  For example:

video compression, MPEG4, desktop video, satellite video distribution, packet video, sonet, streaming video standards, etc. etc.

- Bob Elkind

SIGNATURE:
README for newbies is here: http://forums.xilinx.com/t5/New-Users-Forum/README-first-Help-for-new-users/td-p/219369

Summary:
1. Read the manual or user guide. Have you read the manual? Can you find the manual?
2. Search the forums (and search the web) for similar topics.
3. Do not post the same question on multiple forums.
4. Do not post a new topic or question on someone else's thread, start a new thread!
5. Students: Copying code is not the same as learning to design.
6 "It does not work" is not a question which can be answered. Provide useful details (with webpage, datasheet links, please).
7. You are not charged extra fees for comments in your code.
8. I am not paid for forum posts. If I write a good post, then I have been good for nothing.
cobb
Visitor
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Registered: ‎12-29-2010

Hi,

 

No, I have not basic background on video processing. I would divide what I'm interested in two differentiated topics:

 

1) Video processing basics. I'm mainly interested in TV standards (DVB, MPEG,...) and image correction algorythms. I have the basics on digital signal processing (FIR, IIR filtering, multirate processing, spectral  estimation, adaptative filtering,...). Any good book in those fields?

 

2) FPGA video/image processing. I. I own a Virtex-4 SX development kit with video ADC/DAC . Together with a camera or optical sensor I would have a basic full platform for prototyping video processing systems.I 'm looking for a book with practical suggestions for projects on spatial image correction (pixel by pixel basis) , motion detection. So far , the stuff I've checked looks like very theoretical, and not implementation aimed. Any idea?

 

Regards,

 

cobb

FAQ to gurus:

If you don't know what the heck I'm talking about, go for a coffe and bother someone else.Thanks.
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cobb
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Registered: ‎12-29-2010

 

Obviously you don't get the point, eteann. By this time you have provided two very basic books. 

 

Ok, I sit down , I read the whole book and then I know what Light is  (Wave or Matter...what a mistery..!) And then what?

 

Look, I prefer to have some basic examples to work on, and explore implementation aspects by modifying them. After that, I go back for the specific subset of theoretical concepts and gain more background on them. An afterr that , I design my whole custom made system, if it turn out to be interesting/practical or I do have time for that.

 

This is useful, and it's the way I've been doing in engineering for many years. And someone pays me for that, so it turns out to be a good modus operandi.

 

Sugar, this time?

 

cobb

 

 

FAQ to gurus:

If you don't know what the heck I'm talking about, go for a coffe and bother someone else.Thanks.
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eteam00
Instructor
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Registered: ‎07-21-2009

Cobb, it seems I'm unable to help you.  Good luck to you, and please report back with your progress that others (myself included) can benefit from (some of) what you've learned.

 

- Bob Elkind

SIGNATURE:
README for newbies is here: http://forums.xilinx.com/t5/New-Users-Forum/README-first-Help-for-new-users/td-p/219369

Summary:
1. Read the manual or user guide. Have you read the manual? Can you find the manual?
2. Search the forums (and search the web) for similar topics.
3. Do not post the same question on multiple forums.
4. Do not post a new topic or question on someone else's thread, start a new thread!
5. Students: Copying code is not the same as learning to design.
6 "It does not work" is not a question which can be answered. Provide useful details (with webpage, datasheet links, please).
7. You are not charged extra fees for comments in your code.
8. I am not paid for forum posts. If I write a good post, then I have been good for nothing.
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cobb
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Registered: ‎12-29-2010

Sure.

 

 

FAQ to gurus:

If you don't know what the heck I'm talking about, go for a coffe and bother someone else.Thanks.
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