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jwdonal
Adventurer
Adventurer
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Registered: ‎09-25-2007

KCPSM3 for windows 7 64-bit?

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Is there a 64-bit version of kcpsm3?  If not, why not?  How hard would it be to take the original code and use a 64-bit foundation library?  If it's written in C it should be trivial to pull the code into a recent version of MS Visual Studio and compile a 64-bit version of the app.

 

With more machines moving to 64-bit this is going to become an increasing problem.  And, yes, I know you can use a virtual machine or dosbox or whatever, but this becomes a major pain (if not impossible) especially when needing to script compilation and design efforts. At the very least release the source code for kcpsm3 so someone else can build a 64-bit version.

-- Jonathon
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chapman
Xilinx Employee
Xilinx Employee
21,522 Views
Registered: ‎09-05-2007

I have just finished writing an KCPSM3 Assembler for Windows. It should not come as any surprise to know that this has been derived from the KCPSM6 Assembler so it also supports the new syntax options for definition of constant values etc.

 

However, this is very much intended to be an interim solution for users. When possible, I would recommend users to continue using the original tools provided with KCPSM3 as that solution is known to be stable. Then when possible to move fully over to KCPSM6 and the newer generations of silicon devices.

 

As such, I cannot claim to have performed much testing of this Windows version of the KCPSM3 Assembler so I am now looking for users that are prepared to try it out and provide me with feedback. So if you would like to help please email me privately (do not make a request on this forum). My email address is provide on page 3 of 'KCPSM3_Manual.pdf' as well as in various KCPSM3 files. 

Ken Chapman
Principal Engineer, Xilinx UK

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31 Replies
eteam00
Instructor
Instructor
20,955 Views
Registered: ‎07-21-2009

In defense of Mr. Chapman and his colleagues, it's not simply a matter of pushing a 'make' button to crank out a (somewhat) new platform target of an application.

 

Xilinx would also have to regression test the stuff before it goes up on the web for distribution, and if it doesn't work perfectly for everyone, then the support team bears the brunt of support calls for OS-related problems that the front-line folks may not be particularly well-equipped to replicate (much less solve).

 

If you check the Xilinx tools pages, Windows 7 is not yet officially supported by even the BASIC synth/P/R tools.  Full W7 support is promised for ISE 13 (currently on ISE 12.3).  Once Xilinx gets a solid handle on Win7 64bit support for ISE, it's quite likely that the migration expertise will flow quickly through to much of the remaining SW tools.

 

There is no perfect solution, and we are grateful for enlightened compromises.  As a past marketing weenie said (to a gob-smacked, reality-checked audience):

'If we made every last customer completely satisfied, we spent too much time and money on testing and support'

As stunning as that sounds, there is some truth to his assertion.

 

I don't work for Xilinx, but I can sympathise both for Xilinx as a vendor and for the community of customers torn between the divergent requirements of both various and sundry design tools and the (sometimes) unreasonable whims of corporate IT departments.

 

-- Bob Elkind

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jwdonal
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Registered: ‎09-25-2007

"In defense of Mr. Chapman and his colleagues, it's not simply a matter of pushing a 'make' button to crank out a (somewhat) new platform target of an application."

 

Uh...I'm not sure if you're a software programmer but for this tiny little application which is essentially a glorified text parse and tokenizer it really should be quite simple.  For a simple app like this the compiler and linker should do 99% of the work.  I mean seriously, the entire executable is 88KB and most of that is probably cstdlib. Lol.

 

"If you check the Xilinx tools pages, Windows 7 is not yet officially supported by even the BASIC synth/P/R tools."

 

I'm not asking Ken to rebuild all the ISE tools for 64-bit windows 7 support.  I'm asking that someone rebuild a very tiny application which has absolutely no relation or dependencies on the ISE tool builds or libraries.  I'm not even asking that they upgrade or change any of the assembler's core parsing/assembling functions - I'm just asking that they make it executable for a 64-bit platform.

 

"Full W7 support is promised for ISE 13 (currently on ISE 12.3)."

 

Again, this has nothing to do with the ISE tools but just FYI the v12.3 tools run just fine on windows 7 64-bit and I haven't had a single problem and I use them every day all day. Also, my FAE tells me that most internal Xilinx folks have been running the Xilinx tools on 64-bit windows 7 for quite some time already.

 

"Once Xilinx gets a solid handle on Win7 64bit support for ISE, it's quite likely that the migration expertise will flow quickly through to much of the remaining SW tools."

 

:) Haha, I think you mean "quite unlikely".  Xilinx *_loves_* ditching hardware/software support that is any more than ~6 months old.  I can especially see this happening with kcpsm3 right now with all the budget cutbacks and layoffs going on.  Keep in mind that Xilinx is a for-profit company.  They want to promote their latest-greatest technology (i.e. V6/S6). So expecting that Xilinx will just out of their good graces (a.k.a. by default) have one of their engineers go back and upgrade kcpsm3 when kcpsm6 is already out (and already supporting their latest-greatest product) is silly.  So we need to get some more people on these forums requesting that kcpsm3 be upgraded to run on 64-bit platforms so that us lowly V5/S3 folks can still have some type of reasonable functionality in the future.  I know there have already been people asking for this ability on these (and other) forums.

-- Jonathon
eilert
Teacher
Teacher
20,919 Views
Registered: ‎08-14-2007

Hi Jonathon,

Replace win7 by linux and search the forum for similar requests.

You will find threads about it on an almost regular basis since KCPSM3.EXE was released.

 

KCPSM3.EXE is delivered on an "as-is" basis, and you are free to chose any way to make it work on your computer.

(As we all had to over the last years)

 

Have a nice synthesis

  Eilert

 

 

 

 

 

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mediatronix
Visitor
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Registered: ‎06-26-2009

Hi:

 

In case you want to experiment yourself, have a look at pBlazAsm at googlecode.

 

Henk van Kampen

 

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chapman
Xilinx Employee
Xilinx Employee
20,909 Views
Registered: ‎09-05-2007

Dear Jonathon,

 

I’m afraid to say that ‘eteam00’ is being realistic; there are commercial pressures for all of us and there is only so much looking backwards that you can do. That said, Xilinx devices take a long time to get close to being obsolete and Spartan-3 Generation and Virtex-5 are still very mainstream products so I do acknowledge the point you make point. Even so, there has to be a difference between development of new designs and legacy support of old ones even if they are still in production.

 

PicoBlaze is provided free of charge under the Xilinx Reference Design License Agreement rather than as a ‘product’ or part of the ISE development tools. As such, there has to be limitations but with a such a large number of users it is very important to me that what is provided leads to a good quality experience. Without that I would be swamped with support issues! I’m delighted that there are those willing to share their experiences, knowledge and more with other users (e.g. through this forum) but I still wish that more would.

 

So with the use ‘as-is’ aspect of the Xilinx Reference Design License Agreement in mind here is your opportunity to be part of the sharing community. You are already using 64-bit Windows 7 with  ISE tools not formally released for that platform so can I assume that you don’t mind being a test platform for the PicoBlaze assembler? I know you are looking for a KCPSM3 assembler but the KCPSM6 assembler is native Windows. If you could please try the new KCPSM6 assembler and let me know if it ticks all your boxes regarding your operating environment and use model then that would be very useful information for all users as well as me.

 

I’ve already received some requests for a variant of the KCPSM6 assembler to be made available for KCPSM3 but in those cases it was the desire for the additional syntax and its general operation. Your operating environment request is a complementary reason and if I can kill two birds with one stone then it is all the better for me to justify doing it from a commercial aspect too.

Ken Chapman
Principal Engineer, Xilinx UK
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jwdonal
Adventurer
Adventurer
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Registered: ‎09-25-2007

 


kcmman wrote:

You are already using 64-bit Windows 7 with  ISE tools not formally released for that platform so can I assume that you don’t mind being a test platform for the PicoBlaze assembler? I know you are looking for a KCPSM3 assembler but the KCPSM6 assembler is native Windows. If you could please try the new KCPSM6 assembler and let me know if it ticks all your boxes regarding your operating environment and use model then that would be very useful information for all users as well as me.


Sure!  But...I read the readme for kcpsm6 and I thought it said it would only work for compiling for V6/S6 devices?  Are you saying that it will still compile for V5?  We're not using V6/S6 at all right now so I wouldn't have anything to test kcpsm6 with. :(

 

 

 


 

bassman59 wrote:

I agree. Ken or someone in his group should spend fifteen minutes with Visual Studio, change the target to 64-bit, rebuild, voila, done.

 

It's a simple text parser. Find an intern to fix it. Seriously.

 


THANK YOU! :)  And I totally agree, recompiling the executable for 64-bit platform has intern written all over it! =D

 

-- Jonathon
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chapman
Xilinx Employee
Xilinx Employee
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Registered: ‎09-05-2007

Dear Jonathon and ‘bassman59’,

 

I do acknowledge your frustration but I’m sure much of it relates to what you see as a trivial task and I can understand why you may jump to that conclusion too. What you don’t know is that the KCPSM3 assembler was an evolution of ‘PSMBLE’ that I produced in 1994 for the original PSM processor on the XC4000 family of Xilinx FPGAs. The hardware definition of that processor took the form of a ViewLogic (ViewDraw) schematic using the XBLOX library. Hopefully you would agree that porting that hardware design to a Virtex-6 today would take a bit more effort than  a quick re-synthesis by an intern. So please understand that the assembler dates from the same era and it really is a DOS program all senses; it certainly wasn’t written in C and it even executes within 64k-byte memory limit including all data! The KCPSM3 assembler was released in 2005 and continues to work for thousands of people and that even surprises me for what is really 1980’s technology. However, it has had its day and must now be left to see its life out in peace along with schematic design.

 

KCPSM6 is an all new assembler and native Windows. However, it is new and I’m looking for feedback from users and hence the reason for my request to you. My apologies if I confused you when making that request so let me try to make myself clear this time. What I would like to know is if the KCPSM6 assembler works adequately for you in your 64-bit Windows-7 environment. Does it do the things that you need an assembler to do within the confines of your PC? Please ignore for now that it is assembling a program for KPSPM6 that you are not targeting, it is a question of whether it executes, reads files and writes files correctly (possibly with the assembler, input files and output files all being in different directories depending on how you like to work etc).

 

If you can help confirm that the KCPSM6 assembler is stable under your environment then it would make sense for me to add legacy support for KCPM3 into the KCPSM6 assembler (or a variant of it). That would also cover the requests I’ve received from KCPSM3 users that would just like to be able to use the enhanced syntax of the new assembler which is something else I can’t add in the old one.       

Ken Chapman
Principal Engineer, Xilinx UK
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javidm
Newbie
Newbie
20,709 Views
Registered: ‎11-23-2010

Ken,

 

Can you please give me the link to download KCPSM6.

 

Thanks

 

Javid

 

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chapman
Xilinx Employee
Xilinx Employee
19,987 Views
Registered: ‎09-05-2007

http://forums.xilinx.com/t5/PicoBlaze/KCPSM6-is-Here-Download-it-now/td-p/100430

KCPSM6 is Here! (Download it now)

 
Ken Chapman
Principal Engineer, Xilinx UK
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mkinsley
Visitor
Visitor
18,680 Views
Registered: ‎11-29-2010

Hi Ken,

 

I really like the updates to PicoBlaze - in particular the OUTPUTK which is going to save me significant valuable code space!

 

I've got my first kcpsm6 build up and running using Windows 7 64-bit without any problems! (although at this stage only some simple led flashing code.)

 

I have however not been able to get the JtagLoader.exe to see my hardware. After running 'settings32.bat' & running it I get the following:

   __  _                 __                  _
   \ \| |_  __ _  __ _  / /   ___   __ _  __| | ___ _ __
    \ \ __|/ _` |/ _` |/ /   / _ \ / _` |/ _` |/ _ \ '__|
 /\_/ / |_| (_| | (_| / /___| (_) | (_| | (_| |  __/ |
 \___/ \__|\__,_|\__, \____/ \___/ \__,_|\__,_|\___|_|
                 |___/
         JTAG Loader by Kris Chaplin, Xilinx UK
           Use the -h option if you need help

Info:Connecting to cable (Usb Port - USB21).
Info:Checking cable driver.
Info: Source driver files not found.
Info:The Platform Cable USB is not detected. Please connect a cable.If a cable is connected, please disconnect
and reconnect to the usb port, follow the instructions in the 'Found New Hardware Wizard', then retry
the Cable Setup operation.
Info:Cable connection failed.

 

(Targetting a SP601 dev board which loads fine using Impact.)

 

I'm guessing that I will need a 64-bit version of JtagFlasher.exe? If so, is one likely to be available soon or should I get to work on a UARTloader implementation...

 

Regards,

Mark

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chaplin_del
Xilinx Employee
Xilinx Employee
18,667 Views
Registered: ‎08-07-2007

Hello Mark,

 

I have not specifically tried with Windows 7 64-bit.  However, as a part of our rollout, I will be installing Win7-64 this week.  I'll take a look later on to see if I can spot the issue.

 

In the mean time, have you checked that the ISE tools and libraries are in your path?

 

Best regards

Kris

 

Kris Chaplin
Xilinx UK
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mkinsley
Visitor
Visitor
18,660 Views
Registered: ‎11-29-2010

Hi Kris,

 

I tried using settings64.bat (from the ISE_DS folder) but JtagLoader.exe would not run, when I switched to using settings32.bat it ran but gave me the results posted previously.  I've noticed that while the ISE install includes 32 and 64 bit versions of most of the applications, it only includes a 64-bi version of Impact - this leads me to believe that a 64-bit version of JtagLoader.exe will have to be used.

 

Regards,

Mark

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janovetz
Visitor
Visitor
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Registered: ‎12-02-2010

I'd like to politely add my vote for a 64-bit version of JTAGLOADER as well.

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chaplin_del
Xilinx Employee
Xilinx Employee
18,601 Views
Registered: ‎08-07-2007

Hi All

 

I have added a new thread in this forum introducing an Alpha program for 64-bit support.  Please read through this, and apply to help me test this!

 

Kris Chaplin
Xilinx UK
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jwdonal
Adventurer
Adventurer
18,481 Views
Registered: ‎09-25-2007

"f you can help confirm that the KCPSM6 assembler is stable under your environment then it would make sense for me to add legacy support for KCPM3 into the KCPSM6 assembler (or a variant of it). That would also cover the requests I’ve received from KCPSM3 users that would just like to be able to use the enhanced syntax of the new assembler which is something else I can’t add in the old one."

 

Okay, I've been using KCPSM6 for a while now (as well as some of my other co-workers).  And we would all like KCPSM3 functionality for Win7 64-bit.  We don't really care about enhanced syntax.  If you just get the current version of KCPSM3 working on Win7 64-bit that's all we need.

 

Thanks!

-- Jonathon
jsmyka
Observer
Observer
18,296 Views
Registered: ‎01-28-2009

We also need KCPSM3 functionality for windows 7 64 -bit.  Any hint on when this could happen Ken?

 

-Jon

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chapman
Xilinx Employee
Xilinx Employee
21,523 Views
Registered: ‎09-05-2007

I have just finished writing an KCPSM3 Assembler for Windows. It should not come as any surprise to know that this has been derived from the KCPSM6 Assembler so it also supports the new syntax options for definition of constant values etc.

 

However, this is very much intended to be an interim solution for users. When possible, I would recommend users to continue using the original tools provided with KCPSM3 as that solution is known to be stable. Then when possible to move fully over to KCPSM6 and the newer generations of silicon devices.

 

As such, I cannot claim to have performed much testing of this Windows version of the KCPSM3 Assembler so I am now looking for users that are prepared to try it out and provide me with feedback. So if you would like to help please email me privately (do not make a request on this forum). My email address is provide on page 3 of 'KCPSM3_Manual.pdf' as well as in various KCPSM3 files. 

Ken Chapman
Principal Engineer, Xilinx UK

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jwdonal
Adventurer
Adventurer
18,060 Views
Registered: ‎09-25-2007

Just to let everyone know.  I have just tested out Ken's new Win7 64-bit compatible version of kcpsm3 compiler and it works _perfectly_.  It produced identical verilog/vhdl results as the DOS-based version - but with one big difference - no more need for a virtual machine running XP!!  Great job Ken!! This will make my job much easier.

 

Thanks!!

-- Jonathon
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tuchutich_rts
Newbie
Newbie
17,232 Views
Registered: ‎05-03-2011
hello,

where can I find and download the new win7 64-bit of kcpsm3?

thank you very much!
Regards

tequila
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chapman
Xilinx Employee
Xilinx Employee
16,644 Views
Registered: ‎09-05-2007

Just as Jonathon did previously, if you would like to help in the testing of this assembler then please email me privately (do not make a request on this forum). My email address is provide on page 3 of 'KCPSM3_Manual.pdf' as well as in various KCPSM3 files.

 

Remember, this is very much intended to be an interim solution for users. When possible, I would recommend users to continue using the original tools provided with KCPSM3 as that solution is known to be stable. Then when possible to move fully over to KCPSM6 and the newer generations of silicon devices.

 

Ken Chapman
Principal Engineer, Xilinx UK
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lancej
Visitor
Visitor
16,082 Views
Registered: ‎05-05-2012

Ken, et. al.,

 

It has been about a year since the last post. Was there ever any resolution about a 64 bit KCPSM3?

 

I recently tried the Spartan 3 PicoBlaze and ran into the 64 bit compatibility issue. I worked around it for the assembler by using a virtual machine to do the assembly.  A bit of a pain, but it works.

 

The Spartan 3 stuff is for my home/hobby projects, but I am using PicoBlaze on a Virtex 6 at work (I do the software).  While PicoBlaze itself is a very clever and elegant piece of engineering, the assembler leaves a bit to be desired. 

 

I searched for a better one and couldn't find much.  It appears the Mediatronix one is not well supported and I don't even know if PB6 is actually supported. So, I wanted to share my solution in case anyone else has sufficiently complex PB software to want things like expressions, includes files, data segment definitions and such.

 

There is a table-driven cross assembler called TASM (search for TASM SVS -- you'll get a Comcast user's page). I created my own table for the PB6 and then wrote utilities to convert the object output to the hex and vhdl files needed by the Xilinx tools.  I have been using it to build and then download via the Jtag loader and works great.

 

Don't let the TASM home page fool you.  This assembler has been around for a decade or two and is very powerful. A license is $25 and includes source code.  (It is shareware so you can try it first.) I actually used this software in the late '80 and early '90s in a course I taught and I was surprised to see it still available. It has "changed hands" a couple of times, but it appears that the original author is still involved.

 

If anyone is interested in more information about the PB table and conversion tools, let me know. I should point out that I did not make a table for PB3, which is why I was looking for a 64 bit solution for KCPSM3.  The table should not be hard, escpecially with the PB6 table as an example.

 

Best Regards,

 

Lance

 

 

 

vanmierlo
Mentor
Mentor
16,069 Views
Registered: ‎06-10-2008

Lance,

 

Mediatronix has created a command line assembler. There is also a PB6 version. Only the win32 executables are distributed at their website, but since it's open source you should be able to recompile it for win64 if necessary.

 

See: http://www.mediatronix.com/pages/Tools

 

Maarten

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lancej
Visitor
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Registered: ‎05-05-2012

Maarten,

 

Thanks for the information.  I will try it out this week.

 

Lance

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mediatronix
Visitor
Visitor
16,047 Views
Registered: ‎06-26-2009

Hi Maarten:

 

Usually there are no problems running Win32 apps on 64bit Windows, since there is an automatic compatability mode. I have tested all apps from the pBlazXXX family on W64.

 

New additions, by the way, are the bitstream update utility pBlazBIT, and a disassembler pBlazDIS.

 

Regards,

Henk van Kampen

www.mediatronix.com

 

 

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lancej
Visitor
Visitor
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Registered: ‎05-05-2012

Henk and Maarten,

 

I can confirm that pBlzASM6 runs on Win7/64.

 

Henk, I meant no disrespect to Mediatronix with my post about TASM.  I just couldn't tell how well supported the Mediatronix tools were. Does the IDE support simulation of PicoBlaze 6?  Is there any consice documenation on the assembler syntax and use?

 

Thanks,

 

Lance

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mediatronix
Visitor
Visitor
16,037 Views
Registered: ‎06-26-2009

Dear Lance:

 

pBlazASM6 supports Picoblaze-6.

 

Compared to KCPSM6 it has the option to pre-initialize scratchpad memory. There is no need for long lists of LOAD&RETURN to represent a string. 

 

Have a look at:

http://code.google.com/p/pblazasm/wiki/PicoblazeSix

 

It is all open-source. A win32 executable can be downloaded from:

 

http://www.mediatronix.com/pages/pBlzASM6

 

There is also support for Picoblaze-3.

 

Henk van Kampen

www.mediatronix.com

 

 

 

 

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pveaston
Newbie
Newbie
14,488 Views
Registered: ‎08-13-2013

Can you point me in the direction of the 64 bit KCPSM3 64 bit exe?

 

I found another thread advising using the KCPSM6 asssembler but this then leaves unanswered questions as to picking files from the SM3 and SM6 directory structure.

 

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chapman
Xilinx Employee
Xilinx Employee
14,484 Views
Registered: ‎09-05-2007

You found this thread but it appears that you did not click on the ‘Solved! Go to Solution’ link and read it.

 

The native-Windows version of KCPSM3 Assembler remains available on a per-request basis so I’ll expect to hear from you soon.

Ken Chapman
Principal Engineer, Xilinx UK
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fabrizzio007
Newbie
Newbie
14,005 Views
Registered: ‎12-13-2013

Im learning about fpgaS.
I have an spartan 3e...
I can't find you mail address in the forum..
Can you please give me your email address, i want to try the kcpsm3 for win7 64 bits...

thank you

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