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10,078 Views
Registered: ‎08-31-2010

not getting Clock of 25 MHZ for Ethernet in Spatran 3E starter kit

I am using Spatran 3E. I have made a code to capture the data packets on ethernet port. I am using the clock of ethernet port which is 25 MHZ but i am not getting the result. When i checked the clock output on Chipscope, it have a constant high level of 1. then I checked the UCF and i have used the exact same statement of manual

 

NET "E_RX_CLK" LOC = "V3" | IOSTANDARD = LVCMOS33 ;

 

When i check the Board clock of 50 MHZ FPGA, i get the clock on Chipscope whcih is perfect.

Why my ethernet clock of 25 MHZ is not working. How can i cross check, is there any probability that my crystal is Unserviceable. Kindly tell me some technique to check that my crystal is generating clock.

 

Secondly if i use clock of 50 MHZ with ethernet,, what will be the effects.

 

Why we are having special clock for ethernet. Why cannt it use Board Clock

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27 Replies
Teacher eteam00
Teacher
10,071 Views
Registered: ‎07-21-2009

Re: not getting Clock of 25 MHZ for Ethernet in Spatran 3E starter kit

Please provide sufficent details to usefully describe your problem.  You've heard this before, and nothing has changed since then.

 

Since you know that the 50MHz clock is functioning, try connecting the 50MHz clock to your 25MHz clock output pin.  This will verify that the output pin is functioning.  It's difficult to offer more useful advice without seeing your top-level design code (with pin connections), at the very least.

 

Also check signal name spellings which would result in disconnections to the pins or UCF entries.  Check the post-P/R pin report.

 

- Bob Elkind

SIGNATURE:
README for newbies is here: http://forums.xilinx.com/t5/New-Users-Forum/README-first-Help-for-new-users/td-p/219369

Summary:
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2. Search the forums (and search the web) for similar topics.
3. Do not post the same question on multiple forums.
4. Do not post a new topic or question on someone else's thread, start a new thread!
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Highlighted
10,069 Views
Registered: ‎08-31-2010

Re: not getting Clock of 25 MHZ for Ethernet in Spatran 3E starter kit

ok kindly just tell me the procedure to check that my 25 MHZ crystal of ethernet is giving clock..

Tags (1)
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Adventurer
Adventurer
10,045 Views
Registered: ‎07-06-2010

Re: not getting Clock of 25 MHZ for Ethernet in Spatran 3E starter kit

Hi,

First, it is spartan 3E not spatran 3E .. 2nd, are you using spartan 3E starter kit  or just the FPGA on a custom board ? If you are using starter kit, then can you tell us the vendor? Digilent or any other vendor..

 

regards

 

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10,019 Views
Registered: ‎08-31-2010

Re: not getting Clock of 25 MHZ for Ethernet in Spatran 3E starter kit

I am using Spartan-3E FPGA Starter Kit Board of Digilent

 

I want to use Ethernet port of this board

I am not getting clock from 25 MHZ crystal of this board which is for ethernet port.

 

my questions are

 

1. How can i verify that this crystal is producing my required clock. At present i have checked on Chipscope and i am seeing the board clock of 50 MHZ but this clock is giving continuous level of 1 (high)

 

2. Secondly why there is separate clock for Ethernet. why it does not use board's main  clock of 50 MHZ.

 

Picture is attached

 


board.jpg
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Adventurer
Adventurer
10,008 Views
Registered: ‎07-06-2010

Re: not getting Clock of 25 MHZ for Ethernet in Spatran 3E starter kit

Hi,

first, if you have an oscilloscope around you, check whether 25Mhz frequency is being produced by the oscillator or not.

Then read the datasheet of smsc phy which is stuffed on your board to see how it functions.

 

If you don't have oscilloscope with you, tell me this, when you plug in the ethernet wire, does your phy shows connevtivity ?

If yes, then your phy is getting clock from your crystal.If no, then there is something wrong.It can be crystal or something else.

 

Also, if it connects, run a simple counter on rx_clk coming from phy.

 

 

to answer your 2nd question, it all depends on the specs of an IC. Phy takes 25Mhz clock as input and for fast ethernet provides you with 25Mhz clock on MAC interface and 2.5Mhz clock for 10Mbps.

 

Another thing, chipscope is showing continuous 1 because you are sampling 50Mhz at 50Mhz. So, it will show either 1 or 0. Nyquist sampling theorem =)

 

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Teacher eteam00
Teacher
10,006 Views
Registered: ‎07-21-2009

Re: not getting Clock of 25 MHZ for Ethernet in Spatran 3E starter kit

Maybe this will help...

 

For ethernet interfaces, all clocks are sourced by the PHY, not by the MAC.  The SMSC device provides two clocks to the FPGA (where the MAC resides):  TX_CLK and RX_CLK


  • TX_CLK is derived from the 25MHz crystal connected to the PHY, and can be either 2.5MHz (10BT), 25MHz(100BT), or (1000BT, not supported on Spartan 3e Starter Kit) 125MHz.  TX_CLK is an input to the FPGA.

  • RX_CLK is derived from the recovered or received data on the cable side of the PHY.  RX_CLK is an input to the FPGA.

The PHY timebase is a 25MHz crystal, connected to an oscillator and PLL on the PHY.  The board could be designed to provide a 25MHz clock to the PHY, but that's not how the Spartan 3e Starter Kit was designed.

 

The circuit described above is typical of 10/100/1000BT PHYs using the industry standard MII/GMII/RGMII interface to a MAC.

 

Does this help?

 

- Bob Elkind

SIGNATURE:
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9,995 Views
Registered: ‎08-31-2010

Re: not getting Clock of 25 MHZ for Ethernet in Spatran 3E starter kit

Thanks salim Baba.

 

1. When i connect cable with ethernet port, the green LED of port of FPGA kit gets on which i think means that connectivity has been established.

 

2. Regarding continuous one, i think u misunderstood my question. I want to tell u that for on board 50 MHZ, chipscope is showing proper clock

 

but for 25 MHZ clock of ethernet, Chipscope is showing continuous high..continuous 1 level.

 

What can be problem. ??

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Teacher eteam00
Teacher
9,987 Views
Registered: ‎07-21-2009

Re: not getting Clock of 25 MHZ for Ethernet in Spatran 3E starter kit

but for 25 MHZ clock of ethernet, Chipscope is showing continuous high..continuous 1 level.

What can be problem. ??

Set Chipscope aside for now.  Probe the TX_CLK from the PHY, and RX_CLK (while sending packets to the board).  You should see either 2.5MHz or 25MHz on these signals, depending on the current PHY operating mode.

 

Or perhaps I'm misunderstanding your problem ?

 

- Bob Elkind

SIGNATURE:
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Summary:
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2. Search the forums (and search the web) for similar topics.
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4. Do not post a new topic or question on someone else's thread, start a new thread!
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9,991 Views
Registered: ‎08-31-2010

Re: not getting Clock of 25 MHZ for Ethernet in Spatran 3E starter kit

ok if i generate 25 MHZ clock through DCM , and give that clock to PHY, will ETHERNET WORK.

 

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Teacher eteam00
Teacher
8,195 Views
Registered: ‎07-21-2009

Re: not getting Clock of 25 MHZ for Ethernet in Spatran 3E starter kit

ok if i generate 25 MHZ clock through DCM , and give that clock to PHY, will ETHERNET WORK.

What do you mean "give that clock to PHY" ?  Doesn't the PHY generate its own clock from a 25MHz crystal connected to it?

How do you know the ethernet PHY clock generator isn't working?  And if it isn't working, the odds are good that the ethernet PHY won't do any better with an externally generated 25MHz clock.  Even with an external 25MHz clock, the PHY's PLL (and just about everything else) is the same as before.

 

If you haven't yet probed the clock outputs from the PHY (TX_CLK and RX_CLK) with a scope, you really should do this first.

 

As for generating an ethernet PHY clock, it needs to be as jitter-free as possible.  That means PLL, not DLL or DCM.

 

- Bob Elkind

SIGNATURE:
README for newbies is here: http://forums.xilinx.com/t5/New-Users-Forum/README-first-Help-for-new-users/td-p/219369

Summary:
1. Read the manual or user guide. Have you read the manual? Can you find the manual?
2. Search the forums (and search the web) for similar topics.
3. Do not post the same question on multiple forums.
4. Do not post a new topic or question on someone else's thread, start a new thread!
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8,174 Views
Registered: ‎08-31-2010

Re: not getting Clock of 25 MHZ for Ethernet in Spatran 3E starter kit

Ok can any body tell me step by step procedure to see the output waveform of 25 MHZ oscillator on Chipscope or other software. I will be highly grateful to him. I want to verify my method 

Thanks

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Xilinx Employee
Xilinx Employee
8,170 Views
Registered: ‎01-03-2008

Re: not getting Clock of 25 MHZ for Ethernet in Spatran 3E starter kit

ChipScope use a clock to capture all of the data bits.  If you attach the same capture clock to the data port the value will always be the same as it is sample at the same point every time.  If the capture clock is a different frequency then you will see some variations in the capture data.

 

If you want to look at the a clock you should take the suggestion earlier in this thread and route it an output pin and observe it with an oscilloscope.

 

 

------Have you tried typing your question into Google? If not you should before posting.
Too many results? Try adding site:www.xilinx.com
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8,168 Views
Registered: ‎08-31-2010

Re: not getting Clock of 25 MHZ for Ethernet in Spatran 3E starter kit

right now i m not having oscilloscope.

 

tell me some software method

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Teacher eteam00
Teacher
8,161 Views
Registered: ‎07-21-2009

Re: not getting Clock of 25 MHZ for Ethernet in Spatran 3E starter kit

  1. If you want to design and debug hardware, you will need an oscilloscope.  It is not optional.  You can rent one, borrow one, or share one.  Or buy one on eBay, used.
  2. What is the source (FPGA pin) of your 25MHz clock?  Is it derived from 50MHz clock?   From the ethernet PHY?  Please explain.
  3. Using your 50MHz clock, add in a 4-bit counter.  Your 4-bit counter should be "readable" with Chipscope.  If you can determine the frequency of the counter bits, then you can determine the frequency of the counter clock.  If the counter is counting, the counter clock is clocking.

moonnightingale, the questions I'm asking are intended to help you.  You aren't answering them.  If you don't respond, I can't tell whether you are deliberately ignoring me, or if my questions simply don't make sense to you.  Please advise.

 

- Bob Elkind

SIGNATURE:
README for newbies is here: http://forums.xilinx.com/t5/New-Users-Forum/README-first-Help-for-new-users/td-p/219369

Summary:
1. Read the manual or user guide. Have you read the manual? Can you find the manual?
2. Search the forums (and search the web) for similar topics.
3. Do not post the same question on multiple forums.
4. Do not post a new topic or question on someone else's thread, start a new thread!
5. Students: Copying code is not the same as learning to design.
6 "It does not work" is not a question which can be answered. Provide useful details (with webpage, datasheet links, please).
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8. I am not paid for forum posts. If I write a good post, then I have been good for nothing.
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Teacher eteam00
Teacher
8,152 Views
Registered: ‎07-21-2009

ethernet clock source

to moonnightingale:

Why do you want to replace the 25MHz crystal on the ethernet PHY?

A 50PPM 30PPM 25MHz surface mount crystal costs less than $0.30 $0.20 US in moderate quantities.

- Bob Elkind

SIGNATURE:
README for newbies is here: http://forums.xilinx.com/t5/New-Users-Forum/README-first-Help-for-new-users/td-p/219369

Summary:
1. Read the manual or user guide. Have you read the manual? Can you find the manual?
2. Search the forums (and search the web) for similar topics.
3. Do not post the same question on multiple forums.
4. Do not post a new topic or question on someone else's thread, start a new thread!
5. Students: Copying code is not the same as learning to design.
6 "It does not work" is not a question which can be answered. Provide useful details (with webpage, datasheet links, please).
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8. I am not paid for forum posts. If I write a good post, then I have been good for nothing.
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8,119 Views
Registered: ‎08-31-2010

Re: not getting Clock of 25 MHZ for Ethernet in Spatran 3E starter kit

eteam00

I am notignoring u. What all points u have written i will work on them and comeback and inform u about the progress. 

thanks for ur concern. I am trying to arrange oscilloscope.

 

Thanks

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Visitor xohaib
Visitor
8,107 Views
Registered: ‎12-31-2010

Re: not getting Clock of 25 MHZ for Ethernet in Spatran 3E starter kit

Let me explain the issue.. He has a spartan 3E kit by Digilent.

The Phy is being drived by an onboard oscillator.

 

When connected to the Ethernet Port the PHY should provide rx_clk and tx_clk to the FPGA.

When seen on chipscope (chipscope running on a 50Mhz clock) the waveform for tx_clk is fine but the signal rx_clk is a constant 1.

He does not have an oscilloscope to probe the signal. Most probably it is a dry sold because the PHY does send the data (rxd) and data valid (rxdv). But for proper sampling rx_clk is required. 

 

So my guess is that it is a dry sold or something.

Teacher eteam00
Teacher
8,099 Views
Registered: ‎07-21-2009

Re: not getting Clock of 25 MHZ for Ethernet in Spatran 3E starter kit

Let me explain the issue.. He has a spartan 3E kit by Digilent.

The Phy is being drived by an onboard oscillator.

The PHY has its own internal oscillator, with off-chip 25MHz crystal.

When connected to the Ethernet Port the PHY should provide rx_clk and tx_clk to the FPGA.

 TX_CLK is generated from the PHY's oscillator.  RX_CLK is primarily derived from incoming ethernet traffic, not from the PHY's oscillator.  See Table 3.1, Figure 4.2, and sections 4.3.9 and 4.5.3  in the PHY datasheet.  If there is no incoming traffic, the RX_CLK is derived from the internal oscillator.  If there is incoming traffic, RX_CLK can be either 25MHz or 2.5MHz, for 100BT and 10BT respectively.

Most probably it is a dry sold (cold solder joint? - Bob) because the PHY does send the data (rxd) and data valid (rxdv). But for proper sampling rx_clk is required.

Other possible explanations for chipscope not detecting a 25MHz RX_CLK:

 

  • Chipscope clocked by the clock signal it is sampling (see mcgett's post, above)
  • coding error in the FPGA
  • RX_CLK signal trace open or short on the circuit board
  • faulty 83C185 PHY
  • Expecting 25MHz RX_CLK rather than 2.5MHz clock?
  • Faulty 25MHz crystal or connection, in which case TX_CLK would also (likely) be missing.

Your explanation of moonnightingale's problem is plausible.  Certainly language and style differences have impeded the discussion.  In the case that the problem is as you've described, here are some suggestions:

 

  • Visually inspect the PHY package pins for opens, shorts, or bad (cold) solder joints.
  • Place a 4-bit counter in the FPGA, driven by RX_CLK.
        Even with Chipscope clocked by RX_CLK, chipscope will detect changing counter state as evidence of clock activity.
  • Oscilloscope probe of RX_CLK signal, both directly on PHY pin as well as on circuit board trace.
  • Lift RX_CLK pin (on the PHY package) from the circuit board pad, in case of board short.  Check lifted pin with 'scope.
  • Check TX_CLK with 'scope probe.  If missing, check crystal and connections (traces) to crystal.

I hope this helps.

 

- Bob Elkind

SIGNATURE:
README for newbies is here: http://forums.xilinx.com/t5/New-Users-Forum/README-first-Help-for-new-users/td-p/219369

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3. Do not post the same question on multiple forums.
4. Do not post a new topic or question on someone else's thread, start a new thread!
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6 "It does not work" is not a question which can be answered. Provide useful details (with webpage, datasheet links, please).
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Visitor xohaib
Visitor
8,082 Views
Registered: ‎12-31-2010

Re: not getting Clock of 25 MHZ for Ethernet in Spatran 3E starter kit

Yes my friend rx_clk is derived from the incoming traffic and varies from 2.5Mhz - 25Mhz  - 125Mhz depending on the ethernet connection. and because when the PC is connected to the board a 100Mb link is established is it agreeable that the PHY is functioning ?

 

and why chipscope aint displaying the clock and a constant level 1 is being shown.

1 - if the sampling clock was slow then this wud've happened. But because the sampling clock is 50Mhz and the same chipscope file shows tx_clk but not rx_clk so ill rule out this theory

2- There is no error in the code

3- Even if we are expecting a 25Mhz clock instead of 2.5Mhz Chipscope should display it.. plus because it is connected at 100Mbps then there is no point of expecting a 2.5Mhz clock

4- If the oscillator was malfunctioning then Tx_clk would be missing too most probably..

 

my conclusion is towards a lose or faulty signal connection of rx_clk

 

The solutions u have provided are possible. The problem with his kit is that he can not experiment all this with it because he does not own it. He has lended it from his university or something. So he might be a bit reluctant to doing all this

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Teacher eteam00
Teacher
7,538 Views
Registered: ‎07-21-2009

Re: not getting Clock of 25 MHZ for Ethernet in Spatran 3E starter kit

You seem to have in-person knowledge of the situation.  If we can help in any way, please let us know.

rx_clk is derived from the incoming traffic and varies from 2.5Mhz - 25Mhz  - 125Mhz

125MHz could be generated by a 1000BT (GbE) PHY.  The board you are using has a 10/100BT PHY, which will not output a 125MHz clock.

my conclusion is towards a loose or faulty signal connection of rx_clk

I hope you get a chance to confirm this with a 'scope before you return the board, it may be easy to fix if this is indeed the problem.

 

- Bob Elkind

SIGNATURE:
README for newbies is here: http://forums.xilinx.com/t5/New-Users-Forum/README-first-Help-for-new-users/td-p/219369

Summary:
1. Read the manual or user guide. Have you read the manual? Can you find the manual?
2. Search the forums (and search the web) for similar topics.
3. Do not post the same question on multiple forums.
4. Do not post a new topic or question on someone else's thread, start a new thread!
5. Students: Copying code is not the same as learning to design.
6 "It does not work" is not a question which can be answered. Provide useful details (with webpage, datasheet links, please).
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8. I am not paid for forum posts. If I write a good post, then I have been good for nothing.
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Visitor xohaib
Visitor
7,533 Views
Registered: ‎12-31-2010

Re: not getting Clock of 25 MHZ for Ethernet in Spatran 3E starter kit

yeah iv met the guy.. i was actually at home so I didn't have an oscilloscope. Otherwise that was my first bet to see the signals.

 

Yeah i'll hopefully try to probe the issue.

 

Another major issue.. the guy's supervisor is a jerk :P :P he has no idea of how ethernet works.. We thought if we aint able to solve the problem we'll sample the data on tx_clk and we might be able to achieve around 65-70% accuracy wid data sampling.. the supervisor says that is not enuff.. i need 95% .. so use UART instead of ethernet.. how the hell do u design an FPGA based firewall design thru UART :P :P

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Teacher eteam00
Teacher
7,528 Views
Registered: ‎07-21-2009

Re: not getting Clock of 25 MHZ for Ethernet in Spatran 3E starter kit

If this is for a commercial design, why don't they have their own (not borrowed) eval board?  I suspect the answer would also explain why they don't have a 'scope.

 

When you are under-funded, you make desperate choices out of necessity.

 

- Bob Elkind

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4. Do not post a new topic or question on someone else's thread, start a new thread!
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Visitor xohaib
Visitor
7,526 Views
Registered: ‎12-31-2010

Re: not getting Clock of 25 MHZ for Ethernet in Spatran 3E starter kit

Na this is just a university project. 

and using evaluation boards for commercial designs aint good 

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Teacher eteam00
Teacher
7,521 Views
Registered: ‎07-21-2009

Re: not getting Clock of 25 MHZ for Ethernet in Spatran 3E starter kit

Just for grins, which university are we talking about?

 

- Bob Elkind

SIGNATURE:
README for newbies is here: http://forums.xilinx.com/t5/New-Users-Forum/README-first-Help-for-new-users/td-p/219369

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2. Search the forums (and search the web) for similar topics.
3. Do not post the same question on multiple forums.
4. Do not post a new topic or question on someone else's thread, start a new thread!
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6 "It does not work" is not a question which can be answered. Provide useful details (with webpage, datasheet links, please).
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Visitor xohaib
Visitor
7,518 Views
Registered: ‎12-31-2010

Re: not getting Clock of 25 MHZ for Ethernet in Spatran 3E starter kit

We're not in the US.. We're all the way here in Pakistan... :)

He is just taking a course for Advanced Digital Design

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Teacher eteam00
Teacher
7,506 Views
Registered: ‎07-21-2009

Re: not getting Clock of 25 MHZ for Ethernet in Spatran 3E starter kit

We're not in the US.

That's not a big surprise.

We're all the way here in Pakistan.

I'll skip further comments about beer, and the fact that I'm Jewish.

He is just taking a course for Advanced Digital Design

Does the University have a name?

 

- Bob Elkind

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Summary:
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2. Search the forums (and search the web) for similar topics.
3. Do not post the same question on multiple forums.
4. Do not post a new topic or question on someone else's thread, start a new thread!
5. Students: Copying code is not the same as learning to design.
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Visitor xohaib
Visitor
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Registered: ‎12-31-2010

Re: not getting Clock of 25 MHZ for Ethernet in Spatran 3E starter kit

I think he is from NUST-EME Located in Rawalpindi

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