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Visitor banschu
Visitor
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Registered: ‎07-17-2018

Image processing IP history/roadmap

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Does Xilinx have (or can Xilinx provide) a history and/or roadmap for Xilinx supplied image processing IP?

It seems every couple of years the landscape of what is available with a Vivado license changes significantly. A few years ago I made the switch from Xilinx IP to a 3rd party due to obsolescence of XIlinx IP. As I look at updating to the latest Vivado, there appears to be a new set of video processing IP that may meet our needs. However, I'm hesitant to buy back into the Xilinx IP without some indication from Xilinx as to the future of the IP availability. This availability appears unstable as I can see some IP made obsolete in 2019.1 with suggested replacement, but also some without suggested replacement. There are plenty of good reasons that make me want to standardize on the Xilinx IP, but I worry about the risk of re-investing in this IP if it will be abandoned again.

Thanks!

 

 

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Registered: ‎11-09-2015

Re: Image processing IP history/roadmap

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HI @banschu 

Can you point to more information on this? It would be a worthwhile tradeoff in many cases

[Florent] - I believe that in 2019.1, when you move a design from a previous version (which has the IP output products grenerated), you can choose not to upgrade the IP thus you can use the previous output of the IP

Given that you've avoided addressing roadmap question, I'm going to assume there is nothing currently availalbe or further to share. Thank you for your other thoughtful responses.

[Florent]  - I cannot give any roadmap information on the forums and I am not the correct person to talk about roadmap. You should discuss this with your sales contact. He should be able to give you more information. The only thing I can say is that there is no plan (at all) to remove the VPSS, video mixer, multi-scaler, sensor demosaic and any connectivity IP from the IP catalog.


Florent
Product Application Engineer - Xilinx Technical Support EMEA
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Registered: ‎11-09-2015

Re: Image processing IP history/roadmap

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HI @banschu 

Could you give more details about what Video IPs you are talking about?

Note that when you buy a license, you have 1 year support during that time you are ensured that the IP will not be discontinued. And when Xilinx discontinue an IP there is usually a replacement from Xilinx or a partner.

Note that if you were using the VIPP pack, most of the new replacement IPs are now included for free into vivado:

Video Processing Subsystems

Video Mixer

Sensor Demosaic

Regards


Florent
Product Application Engineer - Xilinx Technical Support EMEA
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Visitor banschu
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Registered: ‎07-17-2018

Re: Image processing IP history/roadmap

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Thank you for responding @florentw 

Could you give more details about what Video IPs you are talking about?

Sure thing. I wish I had better notes on my own precise history, but I can take a few minutes to find some examples.

Examples of IP/features that went obsolete at some point: Defective Pixel Correction, Image Statistics. (Others also changed to cost extra, I think as part of the VIPP you mentioned).

Examples of IP/features returning to Xilinx IP: Video Processing Subsystem, Sensor Demosaic, Gamma LUT

Examples of recent obsolescence with replacement: Color Correction Matrix, Chroma Resampler

Example of recent obsolescence without replacement: Image Enhancement


Note that when you buy a license, you have 1 year support during that time you are ensured that the IP will not be discontinued. 

I'm not sure I follow how there is a 1 year gaurantee. Suppose I started a design with 2018.3 ising the Color Correction Matrix. Then I need to update to 2019.1 for hardware support or other feature/IP, and find Color Correction Matrix discontinued. This is why I'm asking if there is any roadmap to at least get some insight into Xilinx's plans. I realize there are no promises granted by a roadmap, but it would help to mitigate risk.

And when Xilinx discontinue an IP there is usually a replacement from Xilinx or a partner.

Yes, this is generally true, and I am certainly grateful. It is the cost of re-designing to new IP that is my concern.

I understand if there is nothing more that can be shared, but I believe it can't hurt to ask. I would prefer to use the Xilinx IP if possible, but can stick to 3rd party IP.

(I think a lot of these issues would be moot if the IP was not tied to Vivado versions, but that's a whole 'nother discussion.)

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Registered: ‎11-09-2015

Re: Image processing IP history/roadmap

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@banschu wrote:


Examples of IP/features that went obsolete at some point: Defective Pixel Correction, Image Statistics. (Others also changed to cost extra, I think as part of the VIPP you mentioned).

[Florent] - These do not have a direct replacement but you should be able to do the same features with HLS

Examples of IP/features returning to Xilinx IP: Video Processing Subsystem, Sensor Demosaic, Gamma LUT

Examples of recent obsolescence with replacement: Color Correction Matrix, Chroma Resampler

Example of recent obsolescence without replacement: Image Enhancement

[Florent] - Same I think you can realize the same through HLS. You might want to check the openCV library (https://www.xilinx.com/support/documentation/sw_manuals/xilinx2019_1/ug1233-xilinx-opencv-user-guide.pdf)


Note that when you buy a license, you have 1 year support during that time you are ensured that the IP will not be discontinued. 

I'm not sure I follow how there is a 1 year gaurantee. Suppose I started a design with 2018.3 ising the Color Correction Matrix. Then I need to update to 2019.1 for hardware support or other feature/IP, and find Color Correction Matrix discontinued. This is why I'm asking if there is any roadmap to at least get some insight into Xilinx's plans. I realize there are no promises granted by a roadmap, but it would help to mitigate risk.

[Florent] - You shouldn't be able to get a VIPP license. Thus you should not be able to use this IPs. So I am talking about the current IPs, not the one which are discontinued.

If you start a new design you should start with the latest version. And if you start with the latest version, you can be sure IPs won't be discontinued unless it was announced already. Because there, at least is a 1-year notice (due to the one year support). For the colour correction matrix, it is removed from the catalog in 2019.1 but I think it was announced in 2017.1 that this was gonna be obsoleted. So it usually gives some time for the project.

And when Xilinx discontinue an IP there is usually a replacement from Xilinx or a partner.

Yes, this is generally true, and I am certainly grateful. It is the cost of re-designing to new IP that is my concern.

I understand if there is nothing more that can be shared, but I believe it can't hurt to ask. I would prefer to use the Xilinx IP if possible, but can stick to 3rd party IP.

(I think a lot of these issues would be moot if the IP was not tied to Vivado versions, but that's a whole 'nother discussion.)

[Florent] - Well there is always a way to workaround this (I think you can now tell vivado that you do not want to upgrade the IP), but we do not recommend as you would have no support in case there is an issue


Regards


Florent
Product Application Engineer - Xilinx Technical Support EMEA
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Visitor banschu
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Registered: ‎07-17-2018

Re: Image processing IP history/roadmap

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HLS/OpenCV is an interesting alternative that I need to look into more. Of course it will yield its own set of concerns ;) 


[Florent] - Well there is always a way to workaround this (I think you can now tell vivado that you do not want to upgrade the IP), but we do not recommend as you would have no support in case there is an issue

Can you point to more information on this? It would be a worthwhile tradeoff in many cases.

Given that you've avoided addressing roadmap question, I'm going to assume there is nothing currently availalbe or further to share. Thank you for your other thoughtful responses.

Cheers.

 

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Registered: ‎11-09-2015

Re: Image processing IP history/roadmap

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HI @banschu 

Can you point to more information on this? It would be a worthwhile tradeoff in many cases

[Florent] - I believe that in 2019.1, when you move a design from a previous version (which has the IP output products grenerated), you can choose not to upgrade the IP thus you can use the previous output of the IP

Given that you've avoided addressing roadmap question, I'm going to assume there is nothing currently availalbe or further to share. Thank you for your other thoughtful responses.

[Florent]  - I cannot give any roadmap information on the forums and I am not the correct person to talk about roadmap. You should discuss this with your sales contact. He should be able to give you more information. The only thing I can say is that there is no plan (at all) to remove the VPSS, video mixer, multi-scaler, sensor demosaic and any connectivity IP from the IP catalog.


Florent
Product Application Engineer - Xilinx Technical Support EMEA
**~ Don't forget to reply, give kudos, and accept as solution.~**
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