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11,597 Views
Registered: ‎03-24-2011

xapp495-big problem

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i`m read all the document i can find about video transmitter via hdmi(tmds), i tried to implement the xilinx`s design but without any succes.the curious is that the program doesn`t have any error but when i try to conect my pc to tv`s hdmi it doesn`t work.Please help!!

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Instructor
Instructor
14,087 Views
Registered: ‎08-14-2007

Re: xapp495-big problem

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Normally PC graphics cards use the EEPROM attached to a digital monitor to detect the

type of the monitor and its capabilities.  If your board does not implement the monitor

detection system, then the graphics card won't drive the signal.  Depending on the

graphics card, there may be some way to circumvent this behavior and force the

transmitter to run regardless of the monitor.  Another solution is to buy a DVI splitter.

These devices are made to drive more than one monitor.  Then you can plug a

real monitor on the primary port of the splitter and the graphics card will transmit

video based on the capabilities of that monitor.  The secondary output port(s)

will then also provide video.  The nice thing about this setup is that you can

see the video that is being sent.

 

HTH,

Gabor

-- Gabor
26 Replies
Scholar joelby
Scholar
11,593 Views
Registered: ‎10-05-2010

Re: xapp495-big problem

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Could you describe exactly what you're trying to do and what went wrong? Many of us have successfully implemented XAPP495.

 

I just got some HDMI cables in the mail, so right this very minute I have:

 

  • created a new ISE project
  • added all of the .v files from XAPP495
  • added vtc_demo.ucf
  • set vtc_demo as the top module
  • generated a programming file
  • programmed it in to my Digilent Atlys board

I can successfully see the colour bars and change the resolution using the switches.

 

Are you trying to use dvi_demo or vtc_demo? If it's dvi_demo, you'll need to connect some signal sources to the HDMI inputs on your development board.

 

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11,589 Views
Registered: ‎03-24-2011

Re: xapp495-big problem

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i'm trying to use  dvi_demo.so far i could implement the vtc_demo and i can see the bars.with dvi_demo i have problems.i have conected into my hdmi in port a cable that comes from my pc(the pc has a dvi output-i use a dvi-hdmi cable) and from atlys board i conected a cable into my tv`s hdmi in port.doesn`t work :(... 

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Scholar joelby
Scholar
11,585 Views
Registered: ‎10-05-2010

Re: xapp495-big problem

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Have you tried all combinations of settings for sw0 and sw1?

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11,583 Views
Registered: ‎03-24-2011

Re: xapp495-big problem

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of course!...i don`t get it..did you try to implement it?

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Scholar joelby
Scholar
11,562 Views
Registered: ‎10-05-2010

Re: xapp495-big problem

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Unfortunately I don't have any HDMI sources to test it with. Are any of your status LEDs lit? If you have a valid HDMI source, some of them should come on (check the very last line in dvi_demo.v). If not, try connecting something else as a test, or perhaps adjust the output resolution on your PC to something more conservative.

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11,558 Views
Registered: ‎03-24-2011

Re: xapp495-big problem

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I tried almost all valid relosution. the led doesn`t lit that means that the problems is in rx component. 

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Scholar joelby
Scholar
11,552 Views
Registered: ‎10-05-2010

Re: xapp495-big problem

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If no LEDs are lit, it would indeed seem like the receiver is having trouble.

 

If you don't have any other HDMI sources, you could try things like:

 

 

  • Probing the HDMI input with a fast oscilloscope to ensure that your PC is actually outputting a signal
  • Probing the dvi_decoder's PLL lock output with Chipscope or an LED.
  • Probing other dvi_decoder and des_0 signals to see where the hold-up is.

 

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Instructor
Instructor
14,088 Views
Registered: ‎08-14-2007

Re: xapp495-big problem

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Normally PC graphics cards use the EEPROM attached to a digital monitor to detect the

type of the monitor and its capabilities.  If your board does not implement the monitor

detection system, then the graphics card won't drive the signal.  Depending on the

graphics card, there may be some way to circumvent this behavior and force the

transmitter to run regardless of the monitor.  Another solution is to buy a DVI splitter.

These devices are made to drive more than one monitor.  Then you can plug a

real monitor on the primary port of the splitter and the graphics card will transmit

video based on the capabilities of that monitor.  The secondary output port(s)

will then also provide video.  The nice thing about this setup is that you can

see the video that is being sent.

 

HTH,

Gabor

-- Gabor
Teacher eteam00
Teacher
11,488 Views
Registered: ‎07-21-2009

Re: xapp495-big problem

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Normally PC graphics cards use the EEPROM attached to a digital monitor to detect the type of the monitor and its capabilities.

The technical term for this is "EDID".  You have to dig and dig for information on EDID, and the description(s) aren't as concise and specific as I would have preferred... but life isn't fair.

 

There are windows apps you can download to display the EDID of DVI/HDMI monitors connected to your Windows PC.  You can reverse engineer these for your own design...   or even clone one as a temporary workaround until you get your own EDID configuration set up.

 

-- Bob Elkind

SIGNATURE:
README for newbies is here: http://forums.xilinx.com/t5/New-Users-Forum/README-first-Help-for-new-users/td-p/219369

Summary:
1. Read the manual or user guide. Have you read the manual? Can you find the manual?
2. Search the forums (and search the web) for similar topics.
3. Do not post the same question on multiple forums.
4. Do not post a new topic or question on someone else's thread, start a new thread!
5. Students: Copying code is not the same as learning to design.
6 "It does not work" is not a question which can be answered. Provide useful details (with webpage, datasheet links, please).
7. You are not charged extra fees for comments in your code.
8. I am not paid for forum posts. If I write a good post, then I have been good for nothing.
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8,763 Views
Registered: ‎03-24-2011

Re: xapp495-big problem

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thank you very much.i succeded to trick it.it display my desktop image trough spantan 6 fpga board into my tv.Thanks !!I wonder if i can do this with a video camera that has output on hdmi.Would i found the same problem or it will work without  a monitor help !Thanks again 

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Instructor
Instructor
8,759 Views
Registered: ‎08-14-2007

Re: xapp495-big problem

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wonder if i can do this with a video camera that has output on hdmi.Would i found the same problem or it will work without  a monitor

 

Most likely the camera does not have the same issue.  Cameras typically

provide only one resolution, so they don't need to detect what sort of

monitor is attached.  Basically the monitor either supports that camera's

resolution or it doesn't

 

-- Gabor

-- Gabor
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Teacher eteam00
Teacher
8,749 Views
Registered: ‎07-21-2009

Re: xapp495-big problem

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Most likely the camera does not have the same issue.  Cameras typically provide only one resolution, so they don't need to detect what sort of monitor is attached.

Gabor, I think you're mistaken on this.  I'll go one step further:  the "take it or leave it approach" to interoperability (or NON-interoperability) is something the HDMI standard has been worded to expressly avoid, if not forbid.

 

1.  HDMI spec requires support by signal source of at least one of 3 video formats:

  - 640x480p/60

  - 720x480p/60

  - 720x576p/50

2.  HDMI spec requires all signal sinks (displays) to support 640x480p/60 and either 720x480p/60 or 720x576p/50

3.  HDMI spec requires all HDTV-capable signal sinks (displays) to support either 720p or 1080i.

4.  HDMI spec requires 720p or 1080i capable sources to provide those video formats at its HDMI output port.

note:  "/60" covers both 60fps and 59.94fps.

 

An excerpt from HDMI spec v1.3a (which is available for free download)

HDMI Sources are expected to read the Sink’s E-EDID and to deliver only the audio and video formats that are supported by the Sink. In addition, HDMI Sinks are expected to detect InfoFrames and to process the received audio and video data appropriately.

another excerpt:

All Sinks shall contain an CEA-861-D compliant E-EDID data structure accessible through the
DDC.  A Source shall read the EDID 1.3 and first CEA Extension to determine the capabilities supported
by the Sink.

There isn't much ambiguity or wriggle room in this wording.  And one more:

With the exception of 640x480p video format, if a Sink is required to support a particular video format, video format timing, or pixel encoding, then the Sink shall indicate support for that video format, video format timing or pixel encoding in the E-EDID. Explicit indication of 640x480p is optional but is not required because all Sinks are required to support that video format.

I'm a photography nerd.  Every HDMI-labeled camera body I own (I'm up to 3 at the moment) reads EDID and outputs only video formats supported by the connected display (sink).

 

I hope this helps...

 

-- Bob Elkind

SIGNATURE:
README for newbies is here: http://forums.xilinx.com/t5/New-Users-Forum/README-first-Help-for-new-users/td-p/219369

Summary:
1. Read the manual or user guide. Have you read the manual? Can you find the manual?
2. Search the forums (and search the web) for similar topics.
3. Do not post the same question on multiple forums.
4. Do not post a new topic or question on someone else's thread, start a new thread!
5. Students: Copying code is not the same as learning to design.
6 "It does not work" is not a question which can be answered. Provide useful details (with webpage, datasheet links, please).
7. You are not charged extra fees for comments in your code.
8. I am not paid for forum posts. If I write a good post, then I have been good for nothing.
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Instructor
Instructor
8,745 Views
Registered: ‎08-14-2007

Re: xapp495-big problem

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2.  HDMI spec requires all signal sinks (displays) to support 640x480p/60

 

 Given the above, then there's no reason for a camera to completely

shut off its output if it doesn't know the sink's capabilities.  In fact I

would be surprised if something like a 640x480 camera would

bother to implement the sink capability detection given the fact that

the sink must support this resolution.

 

PC graphics adapters, on the other hand are usually made to conserve

power when they don't detect a monitor.

 

All of this is guess-work.  I don't have any HDMI cameras, and all my DVI

experience is based on PC style graphics (although not always coming

from a PC).  The company I work for does make cameras, however and

the small form factors usually mean anyhing non-essential is left out.  So

if I were making a 640 x 480 camera I wouldn't bother with the EDID

circuitry.

 

-- Gabor

-- Gabor
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Teacher eteam00
Teacher
8,739 Views
Registered: ‎07-21-2009

Re: xapp495-big problem

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So if I were making a 640 x 480 camera I wouldn't bother with the EDID circuitry.

A case which is specifically and expressly permitted in the HDMI spec...  unless you embed audio in the HDMI output.

 

On the other hand, this doesn't let the sink (display) off the hook.  EDID must be provided, to be HDMI-compliant.

 

-- Bob Elkind

SIGNATURE:
README for newbies is here: http://forums.xilinx.com/t5/New-Users-Forum/README-first-Help-for-new-users/td-p/219369

Summary:
1. Read the manual or user guide. Have you read the manual? Can you find the manual?
2. Search the forums (and search the web) for similar topics.
3. Do not post the same question on multiple forums.
4. Do not post a new topic or question on someone else's thread, start a new thread!
5. Students: Copying code is not the same as learning to design.
6 "It does not work" is not a question which can be answered. Provide useful details (with webpage, datasheet links, please).
7. You are not charged extra fees for comments in your code.
8. I am not paid for forum posts. If I write a good post, then I have been good for nothing.
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8,722 Views
Registered: ‎03-24-2011

Re: xapp495-big problem

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Well so far everithing it`s good.I can manage to transfer video data  through atlys board.Sometimes it`s works ,sometimes doesn`t.i can`t explain that.about the edid could you give a link that explain the entire process.thanks

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Teacher eteam00
Teacher
8,714 Views
Registered: ‎07-21-2009

Re: xapp495-big problem

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about the edid could you give a link that explain the entire process

Download and read the HDMI spec, version 1.3a.  There are reference links in this doc for EDID.  Also, search the web.  This isn't simple, it will take some work on your part.

 

-- Bob Elkind

SIGNATURE:
README for newbies is here: http://forums.xilinx.com/t5/New-Users-Forum/README-first-Help-for-new-users/td-p/219369

Summary:
1. Read the manual or user guide. Have you read the manual? Can you find the manual?
2. Search the forums (and search the web) for similar topics.
3. Do not post the same question on multiple forums.
4. Do not post a new topic or question on someone else's thread, start a new thread!
5. Students: Copying code is not the same as learning to design.
6 "It does not work" is not a question which can be answered. Provide useful details (with webpage, datasheet links, please).
7. You are not charged extra fees for comments in your code.
8. I am not paid for forum posts. If I write a good post, then I have been good for nothing.
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8,663 Views
Registered: ‎03-24-2011

Re: xapp495-big problem

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I read the specs and i understand that the edid is based on the i2c protocol comunication. A few years ago i build this procotol for another project of mine. I was wondering if i can inport this already done protocol in my HDMI actual project and tie the 15 and 16 imput ports via this protocol into their corespondent on the out corp. That should work ?

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Teacher eteam00
Teacher
8,659 Views
Registered: ‎07-21-2009

Re: xapp495-big problem

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I read the specs and i understand that the edid is based on the i2c protocol comunication. A few years ago i build this procotol for another project of mine.

The I2C protocol is one part of the problem.   The other problem is the content of the "memory" being read via I2C.  The "sink" is the I2C slave in the transactions.

I was wondering if i can inport this already done protocol in my HDMI actual project and tie the 15 and 16 imput ports via this protocol into their corespondent on the out corp

This didn't make sense to me.  Perhaps you can re-phrase this.  I don't understand "15 and 16 input ports" or "out corp".

 

-- Bob Elkind

SIGNATURE:
README for newbies is here: http://forums.xilinx.com/t5/New-Users-Forum/README-first-Help-for-new-users/td-p/219369

Summary:
1. Read the manual or user guide. Have you read the manual? Can you find the manual?
2. Search the forums (and search the web) for similar topics.
3. Do not post the same question on multiple forums.
4. Do not post a new topic or question on someone else's thread, start a new thread!
5. Students: Copying code is not the same as learning to design.
6 "It does not work" is not a question which can be answered. Provide useful details (with webpage, datasheet links, please).
7. You are not charged extra fees for comments in your code.
8. I am not paid for forum posts. If I write a good post, then I have been good for nothing.
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8,550 Views
Registered: ‎03-24-2011

Re: xapp495-big problem

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Well now i`m trying to display in the center o the screen a display.i created a module with a counter that is  increase by "de" signal  when this signal si 1 logic the video data is trasmiting....and by countig after this signal i supose i have the curent adress of the pixel that is displyed.then i have a contition.....if adress is between 2 values i draw a line.it draws is fine bu lenght(ex 100 pix) but the line is always moving.it doesn`t have a fixed point of start.I did the math using 800*600resolutiom without counting the pixeles for blank.etc because in that area the "de" signal is '0' logic.help.where do i go wrong.expect sugestion.

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Teacher eteam00
Teacher
7,751 Views
Registered: ‎07-21-2009

Re: xapp495-big problem

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Do you know that the display you are using will support 800x600?  This is a commonly used VGA format, but it is not a commonly used HDMI format.

 

Suggest you start with a standard "common denominator" format: 640x480P/60.

 

-- Bob Elkind

SIGNATURE:
README for newbies is here: http://forums.xilinx.com/t5/New-Users-Forum/README-first-Help-for-new-users/td-p/219369

Summary:
1. Read the manual or user guide. Have you read the manual? Can you find the manual?
2. Search the forums (and search the web) for similar topics.
3. Do not post the same question on multiple forums.
4. Do not post a new topic or question on someone else's thread, start a new thread!
5. Students: Copying code is not the same as learning to design.
6 "It does not work" is not a question which can be answered. Provide useful details (with webpage, datasheet links, please).
7. You are not charged extra fees for comments in your code.
8. I am not paid for forum posts. If I write a good post, then I have been good for nothing.
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7,744 Views
Registered: ‎03-24-2011

Re: xapp495-big problem

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the display suports the 800*600 resolution.i`ve tried also with 1280*720.the prog draws the line.but it`s moving.it changes his start "adress" always.my adress counter is based on the "de" signal(when de=1 data is sent ).

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7,742 Views
Registered: ‎03-24-2011

Re: xapp495-big problem

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I`m trying to keep track  the pixel number and position.I`ve done test with de and red_rdy,blue_rdy,green_rdy signal witch are  the signals for valid data pixel  

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Scholar joelby
Scholar
7,734 Views
Registered: ‎10-05-2010

Re: xapp495-big problem

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Can you post the relevant code? It's very difficult to guess what the problem might be without it.
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Visitor chiachen89
Visitor
7,236 Views
Registered: ‎09-14-2012

Re: xapp495-big problem

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Hi,

 

May i know how you force your desktop/laptop to output hdmi output to the fpga input port? Did you use any converter to tricks? My laptop keeps complaining cannot detect external displays, thus no video transmittion happen. So, I can't see the led light on, even after setting all the jumpers correctly. 

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Teacher eteam00
Teacher
7,230 Views
Registered: ‎07-21-2009

Please start a new thread

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chiachen,

 

Suggest you start a new thread, as this is an old thread which is already marked as solved.

 

You should read post #9 in this thread, it has some good information which might help you.

 

-- Bob Elkind

SIGNATURE:
README for newbies is here: http://forums.xilinx.com/t5/New-Users-Forum/README-first-Help-for-new-users/td-p/219369

Summary:
1. Read the manual or user guide. Have you read the manual? Can you find the manual?
2. Search the forums (and search the web) for similar topics.
3. Do not post the same question on multiple forums.
4. Do not post a new topic or question on someone else's thread, start a new thread!
5. Students: Copying code is not the same as learning to design.
6 "It does not work" is not a question which can be answered. Provide useful details (with webpage, datasheet links, please).
7. You are not charged extra fees for comments in your code.
8. I am not paid for forum posts. If I write a good post, then I have been good for nothing.
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6,611 Views
Registered: ‎10-18-2013

Re: xapp495-big problem

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Hi! i am also having tha same prblem as you are..

 

I saw that you have mentioned that you trcked it to work..

 

Could you kindly tel me how you managed it to get to work?

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